Tuesday, November 28, 2006

Why Do Secular Israelis Hate the Orthodox?

If you have lived in Israel for more than a few months, you have no doubt noticed a troubling social problem. It seems that there is a significant number of secular Israelis who hate the Orthodox (if you doubt me, just read some of the talkbacks to articles featuring the Orthodox).

Having been born into a non-religious home, and becoming a ba'al teshuva myself, I have found this very perplexing, because I do not remember my parents feeling this way. In America it was live and let live in both directions. Why does it seem to be different in Israel?

Jerusalem Joe of TheIsraeliTikkunBlog shares with us a dream he had, and analyzes it in light of what he thinks is the main reason for this hate. I found it very interesting and enlightening reading.

Curious? Go on over and read.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a new and completely secular Israeli, I have to say that I don't hate the Orthodox. It does, however, make me angry when I see haredi communities attempt to take the law into their own hands, sometimes violently (as with the Pride Parade protests - it's their right to protest, but not to burn the city or hurt people around them). I don't think that this reflects on "the Orthodox" at all, as religious groups are never monolithic. I will add, however, that I spent the High Holy Days this year with Orthodox families in Jerusalem, and was *extremely* uncomfortable and felt like there wasn't room to express my views which differed siginificantly from theirs, so I kept quiet. The same phenomenon, of course, happens among secular left-wing Israelis, as well.

11:48 PM, November 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was pretty unimpressed, he came off as more than a little crazy to me and really sad, if this is how the average Chiloni thinks then may Hashem help us.

Lena, what you and most Chilonim do not understand is that the Frum do not believe Secular law overrides the Torah, accept it, face it, move on. We didnt change for the Hellenists of yore and we wont change now.

1:17 AM, November 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do so many secular people "hate" the religious? Because it is religious people that always attampt to force their morality on others through government law.

Religion by nature does not permit "live and let live". Faith and force are synonymous.

In America it is not idyllic by any means. For years and more recently, America's version of the Taliban, the evil Christian Evangelicals have sought to enslave Americans through the law and the Courts.

5:21 AM, November 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, the Leftist pontificating on coercion. No debate would be complete without it. Well david, it was the Secular, not the religious who forced hundreds of thousands of Sfardi Jews to abandon the Torah. But I guess since the Chilonim were working to destroy religion that coercion is a good and Holy thing, oops nothing is holy to you, sorry.

5:56 AM, November 29, 2006  
Blogger westbankmama said...

lena - I am glad that you see that religious groups are never monolithic - that prevents the hate in the first place (which is of course true about the non-religious).

kahaneloyalist - have you ever heard of the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" - your argumentative style does nothing to advance your opinion

david - I agree with one small point that you make - that in some cases in Israel the Orthodox try to pass laws that protect the traditions, but equating faith and force is just not true. And comparing American Christian Evangelicals to the Taliban is patently absurd

7:24 AM, November 29, 2006  
Blogger tafka PP said...

WBM- Do you really think it is live and let live in even one direction in this country? I'm not so sure anymore- I think everyone "hates" these days: I've seen and heard equal amount of hatred for the "secular" in the religious communities (of all levels) the various labels we use in themselves are the beginning of the problem- probably just as well we don't have a temple left to destroy :-S

5:29 PM, November 29, 2006  
Blogger westbankmama said...

tafka - I was referring to America when I said it was live and let live, not Israel. Here, everyone is in everyone else's kishkes. Sometimes this is really bad, and sometimes it can be good...

5:58 PM, November 29, 2006  
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